Trae Young has now jumped to 3rd in ppg with 29.2 (behind Harden and Giannis) and 4th in assist with 8.6.

特雷-楊目前以場均得分29.2躍居到聯(lián)盟第三位（僅次于哈登和字母哥），以場均8.6次助攻位列聯(lián)盟助攻榜第四。

He is also not in the bottom 15 players in defensive rating.

而且他的防守效率值不在聯(lián)盟倒數(shù)前15……

————————

[–]Lakers KeiserSoze24 27 指標(biāo) 10小時前

I rem when this sub said he was a bust after 5 professional games...

湖人球迷：記得當(dāng)初他打了5場NBA之后，這個論壇就說他是個水貨吧……

[–][CLE] LeBron James Nickjames116425 6 指標(biāo) 5小時前

I was absolutely a Trae Young hater last season because his terrible start but he’s playing amazingly on a shitty team this season. Respect.

騎士球迷：上賽季我是絕對的吹羊黑，因?yàn)樗_局打得不好，不過他這賽季在一支爛隊(duì)打得相當(dāng)出色。瑞思拜！

[–]Bulls DavidManque 648 指標(biāo) 9小時前

Players age 21 or younger to average at least 25 points and 5 assists in a season

Trae Young

Luka Doncic

LeBron James

Michael Jordan

公牛球迷：21歲以下能夠單賽季場均至少25分5助的球員有：特雷-楊、東契奇、詹姆斯和喬丹。

[–]dorsdaddy 40 指標(biāo) 7小時前

This is a solid list and all but let’s remember how the style of play has changed to accommodate for points. Shot attempts per game and 3 pointers per game are way up comparatively.

這個榜單還是很牛的，不過咱也別忘了，聯(lián)盟的風(fēng)格為了適應(yīng)得分已經(jīng)改變了很多。相較之下，現(xiàn)在的場均出手和三分出手提高了不少。

[–]Bulls DavidManque 49 指標(biāo) 7小時前

Pace was high in the 70s, dropped to a low in the late 90s, and now is back up to its mid 80s levels. In Michael Jordan s rookie year (84-85) the average team scored 110.8 pts per game. This season the average team scores 110.5 pts per game.

公牛球迷：70年代的節(jié)奏是很快的，到了90年代默契就很低，現(xiàn)在又回到了80年代中期的水準(zhǔn)。喬丹處子賽季（84/85賽季），聯(lián)盟球隊(duì)場均得分110.8.本賽季各隊(duì)場均得分110.5

[–][UTA] Donovan Mitchell azzLife 11 指標(biāo) 7小時前

Jordan s 21 year old season had a higher pace than today and waaaay higher than LeBron and Kobes 21 year old seasons.

爵士球迷：喬丹21歲那年的聯(lián)盟節(jié)奏可比現(xiàn)在要快，而且也比科比和詹姆斯21那年要快很多。

[–]Hawks Gtsweet 17 指標(biāo) 8小時前

I like this list.

老鷹球迷：我喜歡這個榜單。

[–]Grizzlies VariableBooleans 282 指標(biāo) 7小時前

Ja will be 21 next season, could see him make this list next year too. Would be nuts

灰熊球迷：莫蘭特下賽季就21了，我覺得他下賽季也會進(jìn)這個榜單。那就太牛了。

[–]Bulls Skippy_the_Alien 113 指標(biāo) 7小時前

he just needs to stay healthy at all costs. Look at what happened to D-Rose. Still makes me cry as a Bulls fan

公牛球迷：他只需要盡力保持健康就行?？纯戳_斯的經(jīng)歷吧。至今仍讓我這個公牛球迷難受。

[–]Raptors milkplantation 65 指標(biāo) 6小時前

D. Rose had significant biomechanics issues and played the game in a way that invited injury: Drives into contact, off balance contorted landings, one-footed landings instead of running or sliding them out.

We re seeing a similar storyline with Zion who has significant biomechanics issues and whose game also relies on athleticism and driving the paint. If Ja addresses his biomechanics and focuses on developing his skill and outside game over relying on his athleticism and initiating contact, there is no reason to think he would end up with the same fate as D.Rose.

猛龍球迷：羅斯當(dāng)年的打法容易傷啊，有著嚴(yán)重的生物力學(xué)麻煩：突破制造碰撞、身體失衡扭曲落地、單腿著地，而不是滑出去或者跑起來。

錫安的打法依賴于運(yùn)動能力，而且也殺內(nèi)線，這和羅斯是很像的。如果莫蘭特能減少這種違反力學(xué)的殺傷性打法，專注于磨煉個人技術(shù)和外線殺傷，而不是過分依靠個人運(yùn)動天賦和制造身體碰撞，那他沒理由會遇到和羅斯一樣的命運(yùn)。

[–][TOR] Norman Powell --God--- 290 指標(biāo) 12小時前

He is also not in the bottom 15 players in defensive rating.

lol

猛龍球迷：“而且他的防守效率值不在聯(lián)盟倒數(shù)前15”

哈哈哈哈哈

[–]Hawks humancartograph 291 指標(biāo) 10小時前

This tells me without looking that he s definitely in the bottom 20, though.

老鷹球迷：聽到這話，我看都不用看就知道他肯定在倒數(shù)前20.

[–]Bucks dassads 143 指標(biāo) 11小時前

Trae is going to end up #2 in scoring by seasons end. And for people who really think he puts up empty numbers watch the 2nd half of the last Bucks vs Hawks game. Trae got injured and the Hawks looked like a fucking G-league team. He s everything to that team.

雄鹿球迷：吹羊的場均得分到了賽季末的時候會排在第二的。至于那些說他空砍的人，你們好好看看12月末雄鹿打老鷹下半場的比賽。吹羊受傷之后，老鷹就像發(fā)展聯(lián)盟球隊(duì)一樣，他就是老鷹的全部。

[–][PHI] Joel Embiid bronet 54 指標(biāo) 10小時前

He s really good, but to be fair they almost look like a G league team even with him not injured

76人球迷：吹羊確實(shí)厲害，不過也別吹過了，不管他傷不傷，老鷹就是發(fā)展聯(lián)盟水平。

[–][CHI] Jimmer Fredette Liquidgoldvelveeta 35 指標(biāo) 12小時前

Get this mf some help

公牛球迷：趕緊給吹羊找個幫手??！

[–]Hawks hrtattx 69 指標(biāo) 10小時前

he s fine.

we ll have a high lottery pick + nets 1st this year.

chandler parsons, evan turner come off the books after this season. highest paid player next year is deandre hunter at $7m.

老鷹球迷：他OK的。我們這賽季會得到高位選秀簽和籃網(wǎng)的首輪簽。

而且這賽季過后，帕森斯、特納都會走人。下賽季薪資最高的人也就是亨特的700萬。

————————

[–][DAL] Dirk Nowitzki krdskrm9 26 指標(biāo) 11小時前

This means Trae is good and the Hawks are worse than shit.

獨(dú)行俠球迷：這說明吹羊厲害，老鷹連屎都不如！

[–]See PeaEwe 471 指標(biāo) 12小時前

Idc about their record Trae is good. The team is just trash around him. Look at D-Lo who is in pretty much the exact same situation, putting up worse numbers than Trae

老鷹戰(zhàn)績咋樣我不清楚，不過吹羊還是強(qiáng)。老鷹這配置簡直是垃圾?？纯磶缀鹾退嗤幘车睦麪枺瑪?shù)據(jù)還不如吹羊呢。

[–]Mavericks BroiledGoose 47 指標(biāo) 11小時前

I get your point but D-Lo doesn t have anyone close to Collins level.

All he has is a half-trying Draymond and a bunch of decent bench guys

獨(dú)行俠球迷：我理解你意思，不過拉塞爾的隊(duì)友水平遠(yuǎn)比不上老鷹的科林斯這種吧。

拉塞爾的幫手就是半個追夢和一幫替補(bǔ)。

[–]Hawks RorschachRedd 129 指標(biāo) 11小時前

Collins has played like 8 games this season

老鷹球迷：科林斯這賽季大概就打了8場而已……

[–]Mavericks BroiledGoose 84 指標(biāo) 11小時前

(15 games) And the Hawks have over 50% of their total wins with him in the lineup.

With Collins your team is not the absurdly bad team that the guy above is implying

獨(dú)行俠球迷：是15場，而且他在的時候，老鷹的勝率是過半的。

科林斯能打的時候，你鷹不是那種沒有下限地菜。

[–]Bulls jkure2 265 指標(biāo) 11小時前

The Hawks are so obviously not a contender. They were not built to contend at this moment.

Anyone who is using that to criticize a player that was drafted there - with no input or opportunity to play somewhere else - is a complete fool.

公牛球迷：很明顯，老鷹現(xiàn)在不是沖擊季后賽的球隊(duì)。他們眼下也沒有為爭冠而打造球隊(duì)。

要是誰用他們的戰(zhàn)績?nèi)ヅ険羲麄冞x中的新秀，說他到了其他球隊(duì)打不上球，那就是徹底的蠢貨。

[–]Hawks Hugo_5t1gl1tz 154 指標(biāo) 10小時前*

On the other hand, our “l(fā)ineup of the future”, Trae, JC, Huerter, Hunter, and Reddish, have a net rating of like +25. They’ve just hardly played on the floor together due to injuries and doping

老鷹球迷：另一方面呢，我們這套“未來的陣容”有，吹羊、科林斯、亨特、許爾特和雷迪什，他們在一起時的凈效率值大概是+25。只是因?yàn)閭『退幬镌?，他們都沒啥機(jī)會一起打球。

[–]Celtics SaintLeppy 20 指標(biāo) 8小時前

Kemba put up great numbers for years on a shit losing team. We’re still probably not a contender but there was no denying he was a great player and that’s why we picked him up.

凱爾特人球迷：沃克之前也是常年在一支爛隊(duì)打出漂亮的數(shù)據(jù)。我們目前也許還不是爭冠球隊(duì)，不過不可否認(rèn)的是，沃克是個偉大的球員，所以我們才會要他。

[–][LAL] Shannon Brown AdolescentThug 10 指標(biāo) 7小時前

We’re still probably not a contender

Y all are 4th in the East and Hayward finally looks like himself on the court. Stop underselling yourselves lol. Celtics could easily make the finals if they match up well or someone valuable on the Bucks/Sixers/Heat gets injured.

湖人球迷：“我們目前也許還不是爭冠球隊(duì)”

你們已經(jīng)是東部第四了，而且海沃德也找回了感覺?？蓜e再裝孫子了，哈哈哈。要是碰上合適的對手，或者是雄鹿、76人、熱火這些隊(duì)里有某個重要球員受傷，那凱爾特人輕松進(jìn)總決賽。

[–]Celtics SaintLeppy 6 指標(biāo) 7小時前

Let me be an underdog we play better like that lol. But you’re 100% right we could get to the finals of the pieces fall into place and I’m really hopeful for that. It’s also weird a lakers flair hyping me up but shouts out you bro we need the lakers celts finals again for decades to come

凱爾特人球迷：就讓我裝弱者唄，我們這樣會打的好些，哈哈哈。不過你說的沒錯，我們要是全員發(fā)力的話，真能進(jìn)總決賽。我也真心希望如此。

再說了，看到你這個湖蜜這么捧我們還是挺奇怪的，不過還是感謝老鐵，咱們需要在十多年后再次看到湖凱打總決賽！

[–][CLE] LeBron James knightvillian 17 指標(biāo) 10小時前

I actually think the hawks and Trae are doing the right thing. He gets to ball out and see if he can win some impossible games, while at the same time not compromising draft position. They might get wiseman. Look at the Melo Lebron drafts their team was too good and couldn’t get a good draft position because of it

騎士球迷：我真覺得老鷹和吹羊目前所做的是正確的。他打得風(fēng)生水起，然后看看能不能帶隊(duì)贏下一些不可能拿下的比賽，同時又不會影響球隊(duì)的選秀順位。老鷹也許能得到懷斯曼?？纯串?dāng)初選中老詹和安東尼之后的球隊(duì)，他們第二年打得太好了，后面就沒能拿到一個不錯的選秀順位。

————————

[–]ohnoacracka 930 指標(biāo) 11小時前

Crazy how Trae and Luka have exploded second year while Lakers had three straight number 2s and they didnt do shit second year

離奇的事，吹羊和東契奇的第二年打得這么好，可是湖人之前那三個榜眼的第二年卻沒啥發(fā)揮。

[–]Bulls Kozymodo 7 指標(biāo) 8小時前

Those two are complete outliers. No one is supposed to be that good that early. Ingrams progression is what s often typical for a developing star player.

公牛球迷：吹羊和東契奇完全是特例啊。不能指望新秀早早打出出色表現(xiàn)。英格拉姆的發(fā)展軌跡才是球員培養(yǎng)的主流。

[–]Thunder thisguy2164 16 指標(biāo) 11小時前

2018 was a very special draft

雷霆球迷：而且2018屆新秀是很特殊的

[–]Mavericks BroiledGoose 294 指標(biāo) 11小時前

That draft just had an absurd amount of talent

獨(dú)行俠球迷：那屆選秀涌現(xiàn)出了大量天才。

[–]Barriston_davos 513 指標(biāo) 11小時前

Well looking at what Ingram is doing now, I would say that the lakers culture isnt really built for young players to be at their best.

行吧，那看看英格拉姆這賽季的表現(xiàn)，我覺得是湖人的球隊(duì)文化不適合年輕球員成長。

[–]Lakers whiskeynrye 22 指標(biāo) 11小時前

Well then you would be wrong because he was doing this last year before he was injured.

湖人球迷：那你可說錯了，因?yàn)辁L歌上賽季受傷前也是這種表現(xiàn)。

[–]thelogoat44 22 指標(biāo) 9小時前

Or maybe he just improved??? He was improving every year in la as well

或者也許只是鶯歌進(jìn)步了？他之前在洛杉磯也是年年有進(jìn)步。

[–]Barriston_davos 17 指標(biāo) 9小時前

Ya except now when he has an off game, first take and fs1 and undisputed arent talking abt which team they should trade him to and what they ll get back in return. It s hard to play your game with trade rumours and a media circus every night

對啊，要不可以這么說，他現(xiàn)在有一場發(fā)揮失常的時候，不會立馬有人站出來說要交易他，要拿他換誰誰誰。被交易流言和媒體包圍的時候，你是很難打好比賽的。

[–]ohnoacracka 204 指標(biāo) 10小時前

Maybe but still, some guys just have it and Trae, Doncic, Morant now show it immediately. BI is good now on a bad team but even his first year he never showed that it

或許是這樣，不過話說回來了，有些球員就是有那個“天分”，吹羊、東契奇和莫蘭特立馬就顯現(xiàn)出來了。鶯歌現(xiàn)在在一支菜隊(duì)打得很好，不過即便是他的處子賽季，也沒有顯現(xiàn)過那種“天分”。

[–]Barriston_davos 74 指標(biāo) 10小時前

The it factor only matters for elite players. Doesnt really matter for a very good starter or role player or even half of the all star caliber players. It s still important to develop them properly though because they can still be a big part of the team

“天分”這種東西只在頂級球員身上管用。放到那些實(shí)力強(qiáng)勁的普通首發(fā)或角色球員，甚至是半數(shù)的全明星球員身上就不適用了。適當(dāng)?shù)嘏囵B(yǎng)他們還是很重要的，因?yàn)樗麄円廊荒軌虺蔀榍騿T的關(guān)鍵角色。

[–]ohnoacracka 10 指標(biāo) 10小時前

LAL badly needed BI to be an it player, they were hoping for the next KD. Same with Zo and D Lo. I just wish ONE of them had developed like these other guys

湖人當(dāng)初迫切地需要鶯歌成為那種“天分型”球員，他們希望他成為下一個杜蘭特。就跟他們對鮑爾和拉塞爾的期望一樣。我就希望他們能有一個可以像其他新秀一樣正常成長。

[–]Jazz docnarfid 54 指標(biāo) 9小時前

People sometimes put too much emphasis on elite players. What I mean by this is that very good players role players are needed for team success. Guys who understand their limitations and play to their strengths are so valuable. Ingram is an all-star caliber player right now at 22. He has all-NBA potential. not everyone is Doncic right away, and that s okay.

爵士球迷：大家有時候把頂級球員看得太重了些。球隊(duì)的成功也是需要那些優(yōu)秀球員和角色球員的。那些明白自己的短板而且能打出長處的球員是很有價值的。22歲的鶯歌現(xiàn)在就是一個全明星球員，他具備進(jìn)入賽季最佳陣的潛力。不是每個人都能立馬成為東契奇。

[–]Baconmazing 55 指標(biāo) 11小時前

Lakers have a great scouting department. But yeah they just don t have a development culture. It s funny to see that combination, being able to pick good players but not give them the opportunity to grow.

Most Lakers success comes from blockbuster trades or free agency signings, so I understand being underdeveloped in your young player development.

湖人的球探體系很棒。不過他們確實(shí)沒有一個適應(yīng)球員成長的文化。他們能選中好球員，可是不給他們機(jī)會成長，挺有意思的。

湖人的大多數(shù)成功源自于重磅交易或者是自由市場簽約，所以我也能理解他們在球員培養(yǎng)工作上的不到位。

[–]ohnoacracka 34 指標(biāo) 10小時前*

TBF.... LAL last say 20 years plus has done pretty well getting solid players from lower first or second round picks: Van Exel (2nd), Eddie Jones, Kuzma, Zubac, Clarkson, Nance, Marc Gasol (2nd), Jordan Farmar, Vuja?i?, Luke Walton (2nd), Derek Fisher, George Lynch, Anthony Peeler, Elden Campbell, Vlade, (also drafted Pat Beverly)

They just haven t done well developing higher lottery picks like Randle and the three straight 2nds but maybe that s a function of not having many in the last 25 years basically. Basically since Magic and Worthy were drafted number 1 I don t they ve had many top lottery picks

有一說一，湖人過往20多年是很擅長在首輪末位或者是二輪秀中淘寶的：范-?？巳麪枺ǘ喰悖?、埃迪-瓊斯、庫茲馬、祖巴茨、克拉克森、南斯、小加索爾（二輪簽）、法瑪爾、武賈西奇、盧克-沃頓（二輪簽）、費(fèi)舍爾、喬治-林奇、安東尼-皮勒、埃爾登-坎貝爾、迪瓦茨。（貝弗利也是被他們選中的）

他們只是在培養(yǎng)蘭德爾和那三個榜眼秀這種高位簽方面做得不好，或許是因?yàn)檫^往25年高位簽不多的緣故。基本上自從魔術(shù)師和沃西被選為狀元之后，湖人就沒多少高位簽。

[–]shortyman920 61 指標(biāo) 10小時前

This is either a bad or misleading observation.

Lukas and Traes are exceptions, not the rules. Most 18-19 year olds, no matter how talented and potential-filled, do not dominate within their first 2 years in the league. Lakers drafted the consensus #2s in their 3 drafts and none of them are busts, though the jury is still out on Lonzo. D Lo is already a max player, and BI is looking like he ll become one. These aren t busts lol. They simply needed their 4th years after some injury and developmental hiccups to become the players they are today, and that is normal for star talent.

If Lakers had the chance to draft Luka #2, they would ve done so.

你這話是誤讀。

東契奇和吹羊是特例，不是常態(tài)。大多數(shù)十八九歲的年輕人不管天賦怎樣，都不會在進(jìn)入聯(lián)盟的頭兩個賽季打出統(tǒng)治力。湖人那三屆選秀選中的榜眼都是公認(rèn)的，沒有一個是水貨，雖說鮑爾還有待評判。拉塞爾已經(jīng)是個頂薪球員，鶯歌也有這個趨勢，這倆可不是水貨。他們就是需要在經(jīng)歷過傷病和成長之后在進(jìn)入聯(lián)盟第四年成為如今這種球員，這才是球星養(yǎng)成的常態(tài)。

如果湖人有機(jī)會用榜眼簽選中東契奇，他們也會這么培養(yǎng)的。

————————

[–]Bulls monolith17 307 指標(biāo) 12小時前

Do people realize in Kevin Durant’s 2nd nbaseason/3rd year out of high school, his team was god awful?

We get on Devin booker because it’s year 5. We got on Demarcus cousins because it was like year 7.

公牛球迷：你們知道嗎？杜蘭特在NBA的第二和第三個賽季，當(dāng)時的雷霆也是非常爛。

咱們?nèi)缃衲芸吹讲伎说某錾憩F(xiàn)，那是因?yàn)檫@是他在聯(lián)盟的第五年。考辛斯也是到了第七個賽季才有的那種統(tǒng)治力。

[–][LAL] Shaquille O Neal GoSuckYouMudda 185 指標(biāo) 12小時前

Brah you’re supposed to come in and immediately take your team to the playoffs no matter the talent. LeBron does. So should Trae /s

湖人球迷：老哥，新秀就該進(jìn)聯(lián)盟過后立馬把球隊(duì)帶進(jìn)季后賽，不管其他隊(duì)友是啥天賦。（狗頭）詹姆斯是這樣，吹羊也該這樣。

[–]Hawks soullessgingerfck 113 指標(biāo) 10小時前

Except Lebron didn t make the playoffs til his third year.

Then made the playoffs every year, including dragging some terrible Cavs teams, until he got to that horrible Lakers young core last year and had them all traded away.

老鷹球迷：可老詹是進(jìn)入聯(lián)盟第三個賽季才進(jìn)的季后賽，然后年年都進(jìn)，其中還包括有些年很爛的騎士隊(duì)。直到他上賽季遇上湖人這歇菜的年輕核心球員，然后全送走了。

[–]Lakers baabaabilly 20 指標(biāo) 8小時前

We didn’t make POs last year cuz he got injured, that was the main reason.

湖人球迷：我們上賽季沒進(jìn)季后賽的主要原因是老詹受傷了。

[–]Lakers imperabo 8 指標(biāo) 8小時前

And Lonzo got injured and Ingram got injured. Seemed like any time a key guy got hot and was driving the team to victories he got injured.

湖人球迷：而且鮑爾和鶯歌也傷了。感覺每次我們有誰打出感覺、帶隊(duì)取勝的時候，他就傷了。

[–]nbamodssuckdick 19 指標(biāo) 8小時前

True, but Lebron was missing the playoffs with 35 and 42 wins. A guy like Booker has never won 25 games in what is now his 6th season.

確實(shí)啊，老詹生涯頭兩年沒進(jìn)季后賽的球隊(duì)?wèi)?zhàn)績也是35勝和42勝。布克這種球員可從沒帶隊(duì)有過單賽季25勝的戰(zhàn)績。

[–]Suns JFZephyr 34 指標(biāo) 9小時前

Idk how Book catches so much heat when the best player he s ever teamed with since exploding in production is TJ fucking Warren. KD had Russ, Harden and Ibaka. People move the goal posts 24/7 for this shit. If you re gonna flame Book, flame Trae too. Zach too, that Bulls squad shouldn t be this awful. How bout Hield and Fox, they get free passes too?

Wild.

太陽球迷：不知道為啥你就這么瞧不起布克，他數(shù)據(jù)爆發(fā)后合作過的最強(qiáng)隊(duì)友是特么TJ-沃倫啊。阿杜當(dāng)時有威少、哈登和伊巴卡。要是你們想噴布克，那也帶上吹羊，還有拉文，這支公牛陣容不該這么菜吧。希爾德和?？怂乖趺凑f，他們就不粘鍋了？

胡扯。

[–]Hawks House_of_Borbon 91 指標(biāo) 11小時前

Even MJ’s Bulls had a losing record in his 3rd year, and he had a 37/5/5/3/2 stat line playing all 82 games lol. People seriously underrate the impact the other 12-14 players have on a team.

老鷹球迷：即便是喬丹時期的公牛也在他進(jìn)入聯(lián)盟的第三年有過很長的輸球紀(jì)錄，他整個賽季還場均37分5板5助呢，哈哈哈。很多人真的是太看不起隊(duì)里其他12-14個人的影響力了。

[–]Cavaliers Dysfu 29 指標(biāo) 10小時前

And that’s why I think what Lebron did was so amazing for the Cavs

騎士球迷：所以我才覺得老詹當(dāng)初在騎士的成就是如此地了不起

[–][CHI] Jimmy Butler NotoriousVader 31 指標(biāo) 9小時前

the early cavs for sure. those 2014-18 cavs were pretty stacked outside of the last year.

公牛球迷：他初期在騎士肯定是了不起的。14-18年那會兒，除了最后一個賽季，當(dāng)時的騎士還是兵強(qiáng)馬壯的。

[–]yoyowatup 7 指標(biāo) 8小時前

They were not stacked at all in 18 and in 15 they lost their second and third best player. So they were really only stacked in 16 and 17.

他們在17/18賽季和14/15賽季壓根就不是兵強(qiáng)馬壯，隊(duì)里的第二和第三強(qiáng)點(diǎn)都沒了。所以他們在15/16和16/17賽季確實(shí)人手充足。

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來源：Reddit

編譯：云長刮個痧

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